What the expression for that hmmm…

And a conference in NC? Maybe I’ll go, but im sneaking in becuase of this BS!

Would like to see JC speak.

By sean percival on Aug 21, 2007

wtf? This isn’t because of your cybernegro thing is it?

By jvon on Aug 21, 2007

Sean percival, I know the expression, but not in english

By Lucas Araujo on Aug 21, 2007

The PC shit is totally out of hand. I was accused of being racist once because my idiot employer hired a sales guy (who happened to be black) who was completely incompetent, and thoroughly dishonest — even for a sales guy. I tried to work with the guy but it was pointless. Of course they couldn’t fire him. My observation about the whole situation was that if he was white, he wouldn’t have lasted a month. He never sold a goddamn thing and I think they finally converted him over to commission (thereby cutting his salary to zero) and he left. That was after I quit.

And don’t even get me started on the “minorities” at college who had a free ride while I was working my ass off to pay tuition. I dated a girl who was going to Columbia on a full scholarship because she was 1/4 Latina. Her mother was an architect and her father was a lawyer. Or maybe the other way around. She sure as hell didn’t need any scholarship.

Great tits though.

What were we talking about again?

By jvon on Aug 21, 2007

Jvon,

She had great tits and you’re complaining?

What’s wrong with this picture?

Do you ever actually get laid, Jvon? As opposed to fantasies?

By Vince Williams on Aug 21, 2007

If I had a picture I probably wouldn’t be complaining. And no, I never get laid, I’m married.

By jvon on Aug 21, 2007

This is asinine.

As someone who organizes a conference myself (http://vloggercon.com), this kinda crap makes me want to throw my hands up in the air and give up. I get why they did it, IT JUST MAKES NO REAL SENSE.

Then I go watch the revver video on their site– and they ask me to send them video definitions of a videoblog!!! Can we send in videos talking about how I can have my work sensored everywhere else but on the Internet? Can I just videotape myself taking a crap on the floor?

Because both are valid partial definitions.

I think I may have to go out there to be the loud jew from New York since you aren’t showing up.

By Schlomo Rabinowitz on Aug 22, 2007

Posted at my site:

Loren Feldman will not be leading a session on creating great web video at ConvergeSouth. The free conference is meant to be welcoming to all people, and volunteer coordinator Sue Polinsky and I feel that Loren’s recent video, and his responses to criticism of that video, would make him a lightning rod for controversy and a distraction from the session itself. We have offered him the opportunity to create some programming around the controversy for ConvergeSouth, and I hope he will consider doing so.

This is not a free-speech issue, this is a consequences of free-speech issue. I don’t know Loren personally, but I enjoy much of his work — including his parody of a celeb apology — and believe him that he’s not a racist, and believe as well he could make a real contribution here in Greensboro. If so, it won’t be at the front of the video session; we will announce a new session leader shortly.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

That chance still exists, as I had hoped our email and my blog post made clear.

I agree that you are not best-suited at this moment to talk about using a camera. As a user conference, we’ll still have that session, we’ll just get someone else to lead it.

Please consider coming to talk about the other stuff.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

I’m sorry to hear that, Loren. The offer is sincere, and it remains open.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

That was a good answer, Jvon. You act like such a horn dog around here that I assumed you were single.

You have my sympathies.

By Vince Williams on Aug 22, 2007

Joshua,

As Loren himself points out, his most valuable contribution at this moment would not be talking about using a camera, but discussing the issues around this controversy.

There is room for him to do it at ConvergeSouth.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

Not ashamed. Not pressured. Not about my personal reaction to your videos.

The opportunity to have the important discussion you mention remains open. You are invited to lead it.

We didn’t want the how-to video session to turn into that session, we wanted it to remain a how-to video session.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

“you’ve chosen to let your personal beliefs and pressure from a vocal minority sway your decision.”

Just as should they not let *your* personal beliefs sway their decision either. Welcome to the world of real freedom…where people and private organizations can equally choose to NOT distribute your work or give you a forum. Those damn minorities again - they just seem to be in your way at every step these days, don’t they?

“You and your orginization should be ashamed”

The conference should be applauded for understanding the difference between “freedom of speech” and “consequences of freedom of speech”… not to mention using spell check in their responses.

“This was a great chance to have a discussion that might actually matter. ”

You have the opportunity to have discussions that matter every day. You have yet to avail yourself of it.

Pete

By pete puma on Aug 22, 2007

You keep saying we missed our chance. But you are invited to lead the conversation about your work and its fallout and the broader implications.

If you choose to decline the invitation, so be it, but it’s out there.

As you have noted, the how-to session would turn into the other conversation if led by you.

We want to have a how-to session, it’s core to what we do, so we’ll find someone else to lead it.

We invite you to come lead the other session.

ConvergeSouth is not just in the south, it’s at a historically black university, and by far one of the most diverse tech cons I’ve attended.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

Loren,

For Chrissake, accept the invitation. Ed Cone is right in saying that the initial presentation for which you were scheduled would devolve into a shouting match, instigated either by you or someone in the audience. He is right in wanting to preserve that presentation’s purpose and eliminating the risk of sabotage by its participants and ruining it for other attendees, and I commend him for inviting you to discuss your issue in a separate forum.

What’s Ed Cone doing? He’s organizing. Not muffling you, censoring you, silencing you. Organizing.

You have the opportunity to have the debate that your video failed to ignite. I watched it, found it uninteresting, cliched, tiresome and desperate, a far cry from what your talents can provide.

Go and participate. You’re being offered the chance to discuss the issue you wanted to discuss. What is stopping you?

By Randy on Aug 22, 2007

I don’t think Loren should go. We’ve already seen the wackadoos that came crawling out of the woodwork when he made the video. He should go subject himself to that in person now?

I wouldn’t stand up in front of a room full of people to explain why I wasn’t a racist. Fortunately I don’t have to, and Loren doesn’t either. The accusations that have been thrown at him are unfair and they don’t deserve that kind of response.

He was invited to talk about video, not about his personal beliefs. Do any of you believe he’ll be talking about video if he goes? I don’t.

By jvon on Aug 22, 2007

Vince, rest assured I am not just acting like a horndog. But yeah, I have been for quite some time.

By jvon on Aug 22, 2007

Is anyone getting paid to present at this third-rate conference? Reading the schedule and promotional materials (which still include Loren’s name and do not include the typical “scheduled to attend” disclaimer) I get the feeling that my time might be better spent taking a faux-finishing workshop at the Home Depot.

Mr. Cone is torn between having Loren as a draw and having Loren as a potential “problem.” Solving this problem is not very hard — the fumbling here indicates a fundamental lack of experience and is reason enough to avoid the conference.

A quick look at Hollywood reveals lots of people with deeply shady backgrounds who make horrible decisions that affect a vastly larger audience.

Didn’t a fella out there give a 13 year old girl booze and ‘ludes, rape her in all three holes, and get an Oscar nomination three years later?

Loren would be stupid to dredge this up 60 days from now. It’ll be long forgotten and neither the content nor the controversy will be interesting.

Maybe Cone could grab Andrew Baron instead? Rocketboy’s always up for a free flight and makes a great after-lunch speaker. Bulimics in particular adore him.

By meanguy on Aug 22, 2007

Ed Cone is a friend of mine with whom I often disagree. At first blush, I was ready to poke him in the eye for this decision, but that was before I understood that it does include a sincere invitation to lead another session.

A how-to session lead by Loren would certainly be more about Loren than the how-to. You should reconsider, Loren. There are legitimate reasons why you are being asked to do something else.

The freedom of speech complaint is a canard. You are now free to lead a session on freedom of expression if you choose, or on black tech bloggers or the world according to Loren. Yeah, your hand was slapped, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a better opportunity in front of you.

By Roch101 on Aug 22, 2007

So he’s free to defend himself against idiotic accusations? Wow, that’s generous. There might have been a few people there who had seen the video and were offended by it before; un- and then re-inviting him would seem to guarantee that there will be a bunch of such people present.

So instead of having him speak on video, giving the appearance of supporting his (very un-PC) work, he’s been re-invited to be tarred and feathered. Everybody wins… except Loren.

To suggest that this whole charade somehow supports free speech is ridiculous.

By jvon on Aug 22, 2007

I love how jvon has a little leash around Lorens neck.

By x on Aug 22, 2007

Thats it im going with my “FREE LOREN” tshirt on. I’ll be broadcasting coverage via Ho-Tracker.

By sean percival on Aug 22, 2007

I’m sorry, but wasn’t one of the reasons Loren made the poorly conceived “black tech blogger” video to attract attention? Isn’t the purpose of any video, essay or content produced by anyone created to do the same thing? And now, when given the chance to reflect on why he did it, what it means, what it says about our culture and how free (or restrictive) this vast medium was/is/could be, he decides not to do so? And let’s not blame this on a shoddy coference. I’m not aware of ConvergeSouth, but declining the invitation to speak there is no different than declining to speak about it on here.

What would most likely happen: Cone says the event is to be held at a prestigious historic black college. Word would most likely get out that Feldman was attending, why he was attending, mild outrage, heated discussion, debate, etc. follow. It would be a charged but hopefully enlightened atmosphere for discussion. Hell, it may even get me out of Georgia to attend solely for that reason.

If Loren’s going to be accused of being a racist–which I don’t believe he is–that claim can be swatted down with ease. He could discuss why he feels he’s in the right. It’d be in a safe environment, and maybe, just maybe, there could be some progress.

Or he could just visit North Carolina. Pretty place. Mountains, too!

I just think it’s a win-win situation. For Feldman, the organizers, and the discussion.

By Randy on Aug 22, 2007

Nope, nobody gets paid to present at this third-rate conference.

It’s free to attendees, staffed and organized by volunteers, funded by donations, meant to be a web-user conference and not corporate or agenda-driven. This will be the third year, it’s gone pretty well in the past, drawing about 300 people and some great session leaders (e.g. Jimmy Wales, Elizabeth Edwards, Robert Scoble, and many more).

jvon raises an excellent point, one that concerns me as well: the attitude and tone of a possible discussion about free speech, race, etc. I don’t know how well we could pull it off, but I can promise it would not be a set-up job. Maybe we could do it as a panel discussion, with some other strong voices in the front of the room? I’d moderate if it seemed a good idea. In any case, this is a real issue.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

The discussion would be much more interesting if the focus wasn’t on Loren’s politically incorrect performance, but on racism in society, as expressed in musical lyrics or ’speech’ advocating violence against whites, blacks, women, and gays.

I agree that the Dirty South would be the perfect place to start the dialogue.

By Vince Williams on Aug 22, 2007

Wow… 300 people? Loren, drop everything and get your ass down there. They’re giving you the opportunity to finally get your story out in front of up to 300 people.

In the future there may be technological platforms that allow people to get their thoughts in front of large audiences from the privacy of their own home. Until that moment, you’ll need to fly to the Carolinas when the rates drop after beach season and socialize with a bunch of idiots over luncheon meat.

By meanguy on Aug 22, 2007

“Loren would be stupid to dredge this up 60 days from now. It’ll be long forgotten and neither the content nor the controversy will be interesting.”

Given that this topic will likely be discussed at the conference whether Loren is there or not means that the consequences are likely only just starting. I can guarantee that Google has a long memory and this will not be forgotten in two months or in 5 years.

Something tells me the really impactful part of the social media process in this case has yet to really begin.

Pete

By pete puma on Aug 22, 2007

meanguy makes a good sarcastic point, yet it’s ironic how much meaningless verbiage is generated online as the aftermath of conferences attended by a few hundred people.

By Vince Williams on Aug 22, 2007

I could be wrong, but I don’t think Loren’s video will be a huge topic of conversation if he is not there. And so what if it is? Do you think his presence is going to convince anyone to reject it or support it? I think everyone has more or less made up their minds about this already. There are two schools of thought on it. One says that nothing should be sacred when dealing with humor. The other says that we should be careful not to offend anyone, even when we’re being funny.

Now I can’t read anyone’s minds, so I can only guess, but I’d say that the latter group is using accusations of racism as a cheap rhetorical tool to attack Loren for making that video. I doubt many of them sincerely believe that he is a racist, but sincerity has very little to do with political correctness.

As for “x”’s comment, I am not into that leash stuff, but if you are, that’s your business. Thought you weren’t going to post anymore?

By jvon on Aug 22, 2007

Loren, I’m sure that your invitation to ConvergeSouth was polite and sincere. My comments here have been the same.

You feel we did you wrong, and that is the primary focus of your remarks in this forum. You make no accommodation for the needs of the conference (underscored by your own point about the impossibility of you hosting the session as planned), and there seems to be no movement here toward a resolution based on the session we have offered to create.

I’m sorry that it didn’t work out. Thanks for agreeing to attend in the first place, and best of luck in the future.

By Ed Cone on Aug 22, 2007

Loren, I’ve been away from posting yesterday and today. Simply, I didn’t have your phone number. You told me on the phone (when you called me after I emailed you) that email was the best way to get in touch with you. Apologies for email; if you’d send me your phone #, I’d be happy to talk it over with you.

I am a volunteer and do my best (for 3 years) to bring a small conference to Greensboro. We’ve had great moments at prior conferences and we want to do the same this year.

What some of you might not know (and I’m a NY transplant, so I can feel your angst over this) is that “the South” isn’t what you might think it is, but our town is smaller and probably more “civil” (see “Civilities and Civil Rights,” the book) than NYC (where my son lives and where I’ve spent many a day and night). Greensboro has had important and sometimes dividing discussions about race (and a movie produced, see: “Greensboro’s Child,” by producer Andy Coon) and because A&T University, our gracious (and free) host is an HBCU, it might be a great opportunity to bring freedom of expression discussion to the venue and its young, fairly rural, African American majority (of students). What we didn’t want to do most of all was lose the session about “how-to” and “video” because this is our first film festival year.

Loren is a great talent and a heckuva nice guy. He was gracious in our invitation and circumstances have changed so our response has changed. As Ed noted, we’re completely donation-funded (this year, so far) and we are a civil, slower-moving southern town than is NYC (or most northern towns; we talk slower, we walk slower). We exercised our organization “right” to keep the focus on topic and we wholeheartedly support Loren’s, and everyone’s, right to free speech.

We hope Loren accepts our sincere invitation to put together a serious and important discussion. We’re happy for ConvergeSouth to be that venue.

By Sue on Aug 22, 2007

So let me get this straight. You’ve got a bunch of mostly black students there, and you want Loren — who has already been accused of being a racist — to come down there and discuss issues of racism and free speech?

In light of this information I can completely understand why the original invitation was withdrawn. This new invitation is a bit of a head-scratcher though.

By jvon on Aug 22, 2007

Sigh. The A&T students are mostly African-American. The rest of the conference attendees are from all racial/ethnic/gender groups. I was pointing out that A&T is an HBCU and the students are thoughtful. It might be a great session for everyone (students, faculty, conference attendees, whoever…)

Jeez. We’re really nice down here. And make great banana pudding.

By Sue on Aug 22, 2007

Alright, let me apologize for my tone in the last comment. You and Ed have shown a lot of class coming on here and I personally think you deserve credit for that. I also have spent some time in NC and I know you’re nice down there. I sadly did not get to sample the banana pudding, but I did hike around in the Blue Ridge Mountains and aside from being terrified of being bitten by a poisonous snake — which I hiking companion helpfully told me “hardly ever happens” — it was a great time.

But I’ve also been a college student, admittedly only in New York, and I know how radicalized college students can get. And I’m not even speaking about any particular population here, I mean in general. There is a definite liberal push in this country to limit free speech to forms they deem acceptable. Race is part of that, as is religion; certain groups are deemed off-limits and you’ll be attacked for voicing anything that is perceived as criticism.

That is really the point I’m trying to make. As funny and charming and bright Loren might be, I don’t think he’s going to go down there and fix all that. Based on my past experience with college campuses and controversial speakers, it’s more likely that some campus group will get wind of this and put posters up about it, and you’ll have (at the very least) people outside with signs yelling about it.

That’s ASIDE from the problems with the attendees, and I still don’t believe that would be civil or constructive. The comments left on this site have been pretty appalling, some of them far more offensive, by any objective measure, than the video itself.

By jvon on Aug 22, 2007

“The comments left on this site have been pretty appalling, some of them far more offensive, by any objective measure, than the video itself.”

Agreed!

jvon Says:
August 21st, 2007 at 7:11 pm
wtf? This isn’t because of your cybernegro thing is it?

Loren Feldman Says:
August 21st, 2007 at 7:33 pm
It indeed is.

By pete puma on Aug 22, 2007

Did I offend you by saying “cybernegro”?

Then you’re one of the people I’m talking about.

By jvon on Aug 22, 2007

The madness is not limited to the US, either:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=477008&in_page_id=1770

By jvon on Aug 23, 2007

Honestly guys, I really don’t get it why in the very same country people feel offended by what Loren said and crowds go to see the Borat movie.

By ola on Aug 23, 2007

Sorry to see you leave podtech Loren - I think many of us have a lot to learn from you. Anyone see Scoble try to do a vid lying down?

If you want to push the boundaries you really need an editor or whatever to keep you on the rails. It’s not relevant whether anyone thinks you are a racist - when money/careers/businesses are at stake no-one wants a loose canon in the area. The downside is too threatening.

As I said at the time you blew it with that vid.

all the best

By peter on Aug 23, 2007

So he should only push the boundaries when it’s safe? That’s not pushing the boundaries, that’s pretending to push them. That’s the sort of thinking that’s given us today’s music industry.

Borat’s actually an excellent example of something that DOES push boundaries. I was absolutely horrified at some of it, and yes, I laughed my ass off. It was deranged and brilliant and nobody will ever do it again.

By jvon on Aug 23, 2007

there is a difference between pushing boundaries and breaking them.

Listen to Jimi Hendrix - this side of the line it’s music the other side is noise.

geddit?

By peter on Aug 23, 2007

And when Jimi started playing, how many thought it was just noise? Some people still don’t get it.

These guys all went out and did their own thing. Then the record labels decided “oh, that makes money”, and made clones of them. That’s why every goddamn rock band playing now sounds like Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, etc. We’ll keep getting clones of the bands that existed when music died.

Should we do the same thing to comedy? Do we need 1000 Seinfelds?

By jvon on Aug 23, 2007

Movies are even worse. Go look at what’s playing at your local theater. How many are remakes or sequels?

It’s not that nobody’s writing scripts, it’s that we’re just running over the same freaking material. Those people should decide what content is on the Internet? God, I hope not.

By jvon on Aug 23, 2007

I agree with Peter. You need management. The vid made no sense for you to do what-so-ever. There were no artistic boundaries pushed (very little to be gained) and, the downside risk was great. Tech-nigga was a senseless self-inflicted wound that will most likely limit your future prospects. Did you discuss it with anybody before you did it?

Ed Cone sounds like he needs to grow a spine. Uninviting you was the correct and only action needed. You became a spectacle, and it should be left at that for now. To say they still want you to come, but in a different roll is kind of a weird mixed-message kind of thing. Showing-up would be even weirder.

By chrisd on Aug 23, 2007

Let’s just have a big orgy– there’ll be something for everybody.

By Vince Williams on Aug 23, 2007

Including banana pudding! It doesn’t get any better than that.;-)

By Vince Williams on Aug 23, 2007

I’ll say.

By chrisd on Aug 23, 2007

but hey. It’s new media.

By chrisd on Aug 23, 2007

It’s understandable. They probably watched a few of these videos realized that you didn’t know enough about interesting video to give a talk about it.

By bob on Aug 29, 2007